What is the first thing to do when detecting infections?

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Stoyanov
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What is the first thing to do when detecting infections?

#1 Post by Stoyanov » 01 May 2018, 15:29

The first thing to do is always to unmask the lurking latent STD’s (sexually transmitted diseases) and Viruses; in all likelihood, this is what makes a mess in your genitourinary system. These must be detected, and the following analyses are needed.
Blood ELISA, PCR and Inoculation (if possible, with determining sensitivity to the extended spectrum of antibiotics), urethral smears, sperm, prostate secretion for the infections below listed (you should have all tests at independent laboratories):

:!: STD
(urethral smears, sperm, prostate secretion for PCS and Inoculation. Blood for ELISA):

- Chlamydia trachomatis
- Chlamydia pneumoniae / Chlamydophila pneumoniae
- Mycoplasma hominis
- Mycoplasma genitalium (Neither ELISA, nor Inoculation are possible)
- Mycoplasma pneumoniae
- Ureaplasma urealyticum
- Ureaplasma parvum (Neither ELISA, nor Inoculation are possible)

- Trichomonas vaginalis (Microscopy and PCR often fail to detect trichomonas. Direct immunofluorescence and Inoculation with preliminary immune-response provocation are more efficient. InPouch™ TV inoculation of medium is advisable http://biomeddiagnostics.com/clinical/c ... -vaginalis, all the other are not so efficient.

- Neisseria gonorrhoeae (Microscopy, PCR, and Inoculation only. ELISA is unavailable)
- Candida and other parasitic fungi (Microscopy, PCR, ELISA and Inoculation)
- Gardnerella vaginalis (Microscopy, PCR, and Inoculation only. ELISA is unavailable)
- Treponema pallidum (PCR and ELISA only. Inoculation is unavailable)

:!: VIRUSES
(urethral smears, sperm, prostate secretion, and saliva for PCS. Blood for ELISA):

- Herpes simplex virus type 1
- Herpes simplex virus type 2
- Varicella-Zoster virus (type 3 herpes)
- Epstein-Barr virus (type 4 herpes)
- Cytomegalovirus (type 5 herpes)
- Herpes simplex virus type 6
- Herpes simplex virus type 7 (PCR of saliva and blood only, ELISA is unavailable)
- Herpes simplex virus type 8
- Human papilloma virus (HPV) type 21 (types: 6, 11, 16, 18, 26, 31, 33, 35, 39, 44, 45, 51, 52, 53, 56, 58, 59, 66, 68, 73, 82) (PCR of urethral smear, sperm, secretion of the prostate only.) ELISA is unavailable.

:!: OPPORTUNISTIC AEROBIC AND ANAEROBIC FLORA (hereinafter, the OPF)
(urethral smear, sperm, secretion of the prostate for Inoculation).

- Aerobic flora: incl. Enterococcus, Streptococcus, Staphylococcus
- Anaerobic flora: incl. Bacteroides spp., Fusobacterium spp., Veillonella spp., Prevotella (P. bivia, P. buccae, P. disiens); anaerobic Gram-positive rods: Clostridium spp., Eubacterium spp., Peptococcus spp., Peptostreptococcus spp. and etc.
Opportunistic pathogenic flora and anaerobic flora are not included in the list of STDs.

Today, the most efficient technique, which can reveal even long-standing STDs is, probably, the DIF (Direct immunofluorescence) only.

The DIF has been undeservedly discredited for today, and removed from the laboratory diagnosis almost everywhere. Actually, DIF is a very effective technique for identifying STDs, it is deliberately prohibited everywhere, because it is very sensitive and can detect STD almost always. To cure people is unprofitable for the today’s medicine, so effective methods of identifying and treating STDs are discredited and prohibited, including DIF, and replaced by rubbish such as PCR. Earlier, in the Soviet era, STD infection used to be identified with DIF only.

At the forum, there are examples of identifying long-standing STDs by the method of direct immunofluorescence, while no other method could detect them, and in the first place, PCR, which is the fullest bullshit. https://hron-prostatit.ru/forum/viewtop ... 5&start=20 (RU)

Possibly, you might find the DIF in municipal hospitals, research institutes, family medicine centers for conception, in women's health centers (men have not been given such an honor, so it's unlikely to find DIF in men's health centers).

As the forum users see it, PCR very often fails to detect anything in most cases.

From experience of the forum member, blood ELISA does not always detect anything either, because STDs shoot through the immune system and, as a result, they will shoot through the antibody response to SRDs, which antibodies ELISA must detect; and if there are no antibodies, ELISA will not detect them, so, yielding negative result. Or, antibodies might be detected, but low-titered, which, according to doctors, is also a negative result.

Inoculations work poor as well, because in the chronic form, STDs almost never proliferate, which means that the culture will not grow, and negative result will be obtained.

Seek where direct immunofluorescence test can be conducted to detect the following:
- Chlamydia trachomatis
- Mycoplasma hominis
- Mycoplasma genitalium
- Ureaplasma urealyticum
- Ureaplasma parvum
- Trichomonas vaginalis
- Neisseria gonorrhoeae
- Gardnerella vaginalis
- Treponema pallidum
- Herpes simplex virus type 1
- Herpes simplex virus type 2
- Varicella-Zoster virus (type 3 herpes)
- Epstein-Barr virus (type 4 herpes)
- Cytomegalovirus (type 5 herpes)

- Herpes simplex virus type 6(DIF is not applied, have PCR test only)
- Herpes simplex virus type 7(DIF is not applied, have PCR test only)
- Herpes simplex virus type 8(DIF is not applied, have PCR test only)

- Human papilloma virus (HPV) (DIF is not applied, have PCR test only)

1. Men should test urethral smears, prostate secretion, and sperm by direct immunofluorescence. Women should have cervical canal, vaginal, and urethral smear tested.
All possible infection sites require testing, that is, all the listed biomaterials should be submitted for all STDs.

2. Also, men had better submit urethral smears, prostate secretion and sperm, while women - cervical canal, vaginal, and urethral smears for Microscopy and Inoculation to detect the following STDs:
- Candida and other parasitic fungi
- Trichomonas vaginalis
- Neisseria gonorrhoeae
- Gardnerella vaginalis

3. I do not know, whether DIF is used to detect papillomavirus – I have found no information. So, use PCR only so far. It is smears only to be tested. This means that men should submit urethral smears, while women – smears from the cervical canal, vagina, and urethral smears. It is up to you, whether to use PCR for the detection of papillomaviruses, because you should have been aware now, what PCR diagnostics is like. There is no other method to identify the same.

4. If you fail to use DIF to detect some or other infection – well, PCR is possible, however, keep in mind that PCR diagnostics leaves much to be desired.

I do not recommend to complete tests under paragraphs 1 and 2, as well as 1 and 4 at the same laboratory, because if, for example, DIF has yielded a positive result, but microscopy or culture, or PCR has yielded a negative one, the facility you have resorted to may “garble” the results, and interpret DIF as negative as well, so as not to be discredited. To that point, have DIF independently.

First, have DIF. Then, if the DIF test shows nothing, inoculation and microscopy is also possible. Anyway, the latter is required to detect fungi.

If any disease is detected by any of the above listed techniques, you have the disease, ten out of ten. If a disease is detected in one of the partners (let us call it “partner A”), but it is not detected in the other partner (“partner B”), be sure, the partner B, without fail, is infected by the same disease, even if the latter complains of nothing, because the infection may be clinically silent. That is, in any case, both partners will have to receive treatment, otherwise, they will infect each other time after time.

Preliminary alcohol challenge may increase the likelihood of detection of a sexually transmitted disease, you also may try beer and smoked food, but not naturally dried fish, because it might cause opistarchosis. By the way, alcoholic challenge is not so great.
Pyrogenal provocation would be more efficient, but this trick is rather dangerous, and you may harm yourself if you do not have necessary experience or you are not certain of a safe dose. Be VERY CAREFUL.
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But!!!

Chlamydia, mycoplasma, ureaplasma, (gonococcus seems to be too) are intracellular infections, and in the chronic form, it is useless to take scrapings from the anterior part of the urethra, since intracells will gradually pass from the anterior urethra to the prostatic section of the urethra, into the prostate, seminal vesicles, epididymis or testicles, the bladder, i.e. upwards. This means that it is useless to take scrapings from the anterior urethra for STD, because the collected material will merely not contain the same, that is, in such a case, any methods of detecting infections and even the methods of DIF and Cytology are useless, the result will be negative.
Further, the following points should be taken into account.
Also, it is useless to take the prostatic fluid, secretion of seminal vesicles and semen (hereinafter referred to as the fluid) for intracells in the chronic form, because if they sit inside the cells and do not proliferate – and they do not proliferate in the chronic form any longer, then they do not go outside in the fluid, so neither prostate secretion, nor seminal vesicles or semen will contain them, i.e. it is useless to submit the materials for testing, despite the fact that the intracells are in the tissues of the prostate, and the seminal vesicles, and the epididymis, and even in the testicles, they do not go beyond the cells of their own tissues.
Therefore, to analyze fluids even by DIF or Cytology is useless, because the collected liquid materials will not contain the infection, so, any method of testing is sure to give negative result.
The only possible method is the scraping from the prostatic part of the urethra with a urological catheter, and preferably alongside of the urethra, or scraping through the urethroscope inserted into the prostatic region.

Stoyanov
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What is the first thing to do when detecting infections?

#2 Post by Stoyanov » 01 May 2018, 15:32

Continuation 1

Let’s recap briefly on an important detail. If the infection is not detected by one of the methods, it does not mean that there is no infection!! In the chronic form, the infection lies in the far parts of the urethra, in the prostate, seminal vesicles, in the testicles and epididymis, from which it is practically impossible to catch the infection, because it merely cannot enter the material under study. And if there is none in the material under investigation, then the result will be negative despite any method of investigation.
ELISA in chronic form will be negative as well, because overtime, antibodies stop developing due to immunosuppression against a background of a chronic STD infection, while ELISA is focused specifically on identifying antibodies to infections, and if blood contains no antibody, then the ELISA-test for infection will be negative.
That is why most of the forum members neither method, first of all, PCR reveals anything, despite obvious STD symptoms. The only technique that can help is DIF, but no always, because as I have already mentioned above, if a sexually transmitted infection is not included in the collected material, then the result will be negative regardless the technique. With chronic STD, the bodies are single, so, PCR simply cannot see the same, because hundreds of these bodies are required to be observable; while DIF can detect them even in a small amount, so it does work, but only with luck, if the bodies enter the studied material.
Well, ELISA will also may be of use, but only if preliminary immunomodulation is provided, and if there is a good response of the immune system to the immune modulating agent, and antibodies to the lurking infection are generated.

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:!: Start with DIF, either with or without a preliminary challenge. Use the DIF technique to submit all materials (urethral scraping, prostate fluid, sperm) for all STDs, even given the above information – suppose something is detected, after all, the forum provides some examples of identification of a long-standing STD,

Now, if you failed to have direct immunofluorescence test… Let us consider some progressive advanced techniques.

:!: PROCEDURE FOR DETECTING STD
1. If you were infected at most 2-3 weeks ago, do not hesitate to have PCR test.
2. If you were infected more than 2-3 weeks ago, then PCR is worth doing only with a preliminary provocation by the immunomodulator, otherwise the probability that you will find something by the PCR method is greatly reduced, as the pathogen begins to adapt to the cells of the body, hiding. But it is not necessarily that the preliminary challenge, all the same, will reveal STD, and it is not necessarily that all STDs in an organism will be revealed, since several types of STDs may cause a mixed infection, each of which can be identified with varying accuracy, complexity and reliability. That is, if the infection is not detected, it does not necessarily mean that it is absent. ELISA reveals hidden STDs.
3. If PCR has detected any STD, it is recommended that Inoculation be decided, in order to select the most effective antibiotic to eliminate the STD. But in principle, this is not necessary, because antibiotics can be also selected empirically, based on their fighting specific types of STDs.
4. Biomaterials tested for STDs by means of PCR and Inoculation:
- Urethral smear (detection of the infection localized in the urethra)
- Sperm (detection of the infection localized in the testes and epididymis, seminal vesicles, vas deferens)
- Prostate secretion (detection of the infection localized in the prostate)
It is recommended to investigate all types of materials, because the infection can be localized anywhere: either in the urethra, or in the prostate, in the testicles, in the seminal vesicle, or in several regions simultaneously.
5. If the patient was infected more than 3 weeks ago, in any case, always do ELISA IgG (enzyme immunoassay to reveal antibodies to infections) with preliminary immunomodulation with Pyrogenal or Interferon alfa-2b. ELISA will detect hidden STDs and Viral infections. The fact is that if STI infections have been in the body for more than 2-3 weeks, or it is the chronic form, then the method of PCR much less Inoculation is unlikely to pick those up. They might be detected only if preliminary provoked by an immunomodulator, and it is not necessarily the true that all causes will be reveal, i.e. all STDs. PCR and Inoculation are more suitable for detecting more recent infections, i.e. the infection occurred no later than 2-3 weeks ago.

:!: PROCEDURE FOR DETECTING VIRUSES
1. PCR (preliminary immunomodulation is not necessary). If some viruses are not detected by PCR, then this does not mean that they are absent ten out of ten. Or if some sort of these viruses are detected, it is not to say that other types of viruses are absent, because a mixed viral infection of several types of viruses is possible, while some of them viruses may not replicate at the moment, and, so, they cannot be detected by the PCR. ELISA is meant for the detection of hidden viruses.
2. Biomaterials tested for viruses by means of PCR:
- Urethral smear (detection of the infection localized in the urethra)
- Sperm (detection of the infection localized in the testes and epididymis, seminal vesicles, vas deferens)
- Prostate secretion (detection of the infection localized in the prostate)
It is recommended to investigate all types of materials, because the infection can be localized anywhere: either in the urethra, or in the prostate, in the testicles, in the seminal vesicle, or in several regions simultaneously.
If PCR fails to reveal any virus in the urethral smear, semen, or prostate secretion, do test saliva and blood for herpes using PCR.
3. If you were infected more than 3 weeks ago, always have ELISA IgG testing (preliminary immunomodulation in this case is not necessary). ELISA for HPV is not available. ELISA for herpes simplex virus is available.

:!: DETECTION OF OPPORTUNISTIC AEROBIC AND ANAEROBIC FLORA (OPF)
- Culture of sperm, prostate secretion, urethral smear for flora with the definition of sensitivity to the broad-spectrum antibiotics (by “flora” the laboratories basically understand opportunistic pathogenic flora such as Enterococci, Streptococcus, Staphylococcus)
- Culture of sperm, prostate secretion, urethral smear for anaerobic flora with the definition of sensitivity to the broad-spectrum antibiotics.
Have OPF test, since it can accompany the underlying infection and aggravate the pathogenic process. Mostly, the patients are infected by STDs and Viruses. OPF generally occurs against a background of decreased immunity caused by the underlying infection. The treatment should target the main infection. OPF is certain to leave the body, when the core infection is eliminated. But still there are cases when the OPF is persistent thus preventing the main treatment, and it also required specific treatment. In this case, the antibiotic should be selected based on the sensitivity of OPF according to the inoculation findings.


:!: A COMBINED VIRUS+STD+OPF INFECTION IS POSSIBLE, WHICH ALSO MAY CONSIST OF SEVERAL TYPE OF STDS, SEVERAL TYPES OF VIRUSES, AND SEVERAL TYPES OF OPF.

:!: In addition to PCR for the detection of STDs, I would also advise also to have microscopic studies of semen (including Spermogram), prostate secretion and urethral smear. This is supplementary, necessary, still not replacing the PCR and Inoculation method of research to identify the above mentioned trichomonads, gonococcus, and fungi. In summary:
- Semen microscopy (not to be confused with spermogram)
- Urethral smear microscopy
- Prostate secretion microscopy.

Stoyanov
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Posts: 28
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What is the first thing to do when detecting infections?

#3 Post by Stoyanov » 01 May 2018, 15:33

Continuation 2

:!: All this takes time and money; however, useless treatments will take not less, but all in wane, since the true causative agents are not detected.

:!: To save time and money, if more than 3 weeks lapsed upon the infection, only ELISA (IgG only) following immunomodulation, for all STDs and all viruses makes sense. PCR or cultures for all STDs and all viruses is not necessary. Then, select the management exclusively based on the ELISA findings.
The only thing is that ELISA for mycoplasma genitalium, ureaplasma parvum, neisseria gonorrhoeae is unavailable, PCR only (challenged) is possible.
ELISA for herpes virus type 7 is unavailable as well, so, have PCR than involves saliva and blood. (preliminary provocation for virus detection is not required).
Although ELISA for Trichomonas is possible, but in this case, inoculation, DIF and microscopy with provocation will be more informative. ELISA would not hurt too.

I would not advise to have more than 2 or 3 urethral smears a day for PCR and Inoculation, with an interval of 1-2 days, because each next sample to be tested might be insufficient for analysis and render the result unreliable. So, you will have to take urethral smears for some time. Before submission, do not urinate 2 to 3 hours.

:!: Before submission of both semen and prostate secretion, abstain 3 days from sex and masturbation. Do not take prostate secretion and semen tests on the same day. Abstention is necessary in both cases.
When submitting semen, prostate secretion and/or urethral smear for STDs, and for microscopy, preliminary immunomodulation challenge is advisable (e.g. with Pyrogenal).

:!: You may have the samples of sperm, urethral smear, and blood OPF taken at the laboratories, bypassing extorting doctors. The only thing, you can have resource to them to have prostate secretion taken, and then, it is up to you to deliver the secretion in the tubes to the laboratory independently. Laboratories, e.g. Invitro, will provide you with the tubes. You have to deliver the sperm to the laboratory independently. Follow the storage and transportation conditions: the lab workers will give you all necessary explanations; temperature control and terms of delivery are of essence. In most cases, the temperature must be plus 2 – plus 4 degrees centigrade.

Following the above recommendations, you will be able to have the full-scale clinical picture of possible true causative agents of the process. Having the outcome analyses on hand, do not hesitate to visit the urologist/STD specialist to have nothing special but an adequate treatment prescribed. By the way, what the treatment looks like is remains to be seen.

:!: One more important note!
If your tests showed nothing, then your lady should be sent to the laboratory to identify all these infections. It often happens that infections that hit a man, picked up from a lady, cannot be detected, but if examined, the lady will show a complete set of STDs. The fact is that all these infections are detected in women by far more easily, and for some reason, it is much more difficult in men. Ladies also need a preliminary provocation by Pyrogenal. So it is necessary to simultaneously examine your lady in order to understand what problem you have. Definitely, if she shows a problem, then be sure that you have the same thing, in a more hidden form though.

:!: SOME TRICK IN DEALING WITH THE LABORATORY WHEN DELIVERING MEDICAL TESTS
When applying to a pay-laboratory, you may face a situation when you, for example, need to have inoculation or PCR of the urethral smear/sperm/prostate secretion, e.g. for Chlamydophila pneumoniae. Again, for example, Invitro permits only testing the samples of saliva, sputum, and scraping epithelial cells from oral pharynx.

I will show you how to manage the situation and have the localization or environment (urethral smear, prostate secretion, semen) you need for Chlamydophila pneumonia.

IF THE SAMPLE IS TAKEN DIRECTLY IN THE LAB, THEY WILL NOT PERMIT THE TUBE TO BE TAKEN BY YOU OR YOUR SO-CALLED ADMITTING PHYSICIAN; END OF STORY. You can ask Invitro laboratory technicians to take sample from the urethra/secret/sperm, and specify the saliva, or the localization/environment that they can analyze in the report. For inoculation and PCR, no matter what medium the material was taken from. So this is an artificial restriction. I think it's still possible to reach an agreement with laboratory technicians in Invitro, saying that you actually need to look also Chlamydophila pneumoniae in the localization/environment where you need to check its presence. Exactly this way I tried to persuade, use cunning and cheating the partlets in the laboratory, but I had what I needed and where I needed. This situation concerns not only Chlamydophila pneumoniae, the same can occur with any infection. In such cases, the principle of settling the situation is the same everywhere, in all laboratories.

OR BETTER YET, TAKE SAMPLES AT HOME TO THE TUBES TAKEN FROM THE LABORATORY. THEN, USE CUNNING AND DECEIVE, BUT YOU SHALL HAVE THE TEST YOU NEED – NO MUSS, NO FUSS. TAKE THE SMEARS AND PLACE THEM INTO THE TUBES – NO MATTER, WHETHER FOR PCR, OR CULTURES. COMING TO THE LAB, TELL THEM THAT YOU HAVE TAKEN WHAT IS PERMITTED AND WHERE IS PERMITTED FROM. BIG DEAL! I BET, BECAUSE I HAVE DONE IT MYSELF. ALL THE RESTRICTIONS ARE ARTIFICIAL, THEY DECEIVE PEOPLE, SO YOU SHOULDN’T BE IGNORANT.


p.s. Chlamydophila pneumoniae is diagnosed in saliva, sputum, and oral pharynx however, it is not necessarily true that it cannot be localized anywhere else.

I usually do it this way. I make a list of all the tests (cultures, PCR, ELISA and others) that I need to take. Then I visit the website of the laboratory where I intend to apply to, search for these tests, their correct names, the analysis code, the price, write down all the data, and sum up the costs of the tests. I make the list with all the tests I need, indicating exactly the names of the tests listed on the laboratory's website. I print out the list, or just write it down on a sheet of paper. I have the cash required on hand. I go to the laboratory, present them a list of analyzes and nothing more. The laboratory does not have any questions at all, they immediately understand everything, you will pay for the tests, they will send you to the procedure room, take all the samples, and there is nothing more to it, you should just wait for the outcome. When you go to a hospital or a laboratory and you need something specific with them, keep in mind that in order to get what you need, you have to make this request in a language they understand, only then you will get the desired result. Bear in mind that different laboratories use the same analyzes in different ways, to be more exact, their names are stated differently, with the same thing being the same. That's why you need separate lists for each laboratory, and not only. In any case, every time you go to the laboratory, it's better to provide them with a list of tests you want to have, with the names they have on the website. The thing is that they do not have to search in the system for long the exact analyzes you want to do, and there will be no confusion or random errors; time is saved, conflicts not arising. Therefore, before every visit to the laboratory, and not only to the laboratory, be carefully prepared. This tactic has been gained through personal experience.

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